Curse

TheodenKing · Jul 20, 2009, 03:51 AM // 03:51

If you know how to manage your energy (good monk), UA outperforms HB.

If you have a hard time targeting your allies before they croak, or anticipating who will be spiked (bad monk), then keep using the HB meta, because it was designed for bad monks to make them serviceable.

subarucar · Jul 20, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56

I would take WoH over HB any day, but if WoH were to be removed from the game, then HB would probably be the next best thing.
HB Also makes Heal Party worth taking, and HP can come in handy in areas with alot of AoE damage/degen. However, I would still rather take LoD.

I dont understand people using Orison, just wait an extra second and get a larger heal from Dwayna's Kiss or Patient Spirit. If you need a more spammable heal, your doing something wrong, and will run out of energy quickly anyway.

And on the subject of posting skillbars you just type [skillname]
I belive this system is down at the moment though.

IronSheik · Jul 20, 2009, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Speaking of Energy management, selfless is always my e-management unless it's an extremely anti-enchant area. Switching to highset and casting on 0e>15 net gain from Glyph

Axel Zinfandel · Jul 20, 2009, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Didn't mommy tell you not to feed the trolls, people?

Burst Cancel · Jul 20, 2009, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

selfless is always my e-management unless it's an extremely anti-enchant area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheodenKing

If you know how to manage your energy (good monk), UA outperforms HB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

How is that? HB Heal party is a great heal, and when mimiced UA, it's 170 helf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzes Tyan

Patient Spirit, Orison of Healing, Heal Other, (Optional), Ether Signet (iirc) Auspicious Incant, Heal Party, UA.

I can't believe what I'm reading.

YunSooJin · Jul 20, 2009, 04:48 AM // 04:48

pure red bar up is inferior to prot + a little red bar. Why all of the boneheaded merciless focus on the most retarded-ass skills that will NEVER EVER actually help you under real pressure? I mean yeah pve is easy with your imbagons, minion masters and spirit spammers.. but at any point if a monk encounters real pressure they are toast with pure red bar up.

I don't get you people.

Lishy · Jul 20, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Tell me a prot other than prot spirit or aegis that would save your life and is as good as you're making it out to be.

/feeds troll just to see what he would say

No, seriously. Most of the prot line either consumes all your energy, or doesn't have much to offer. Only a little bit of it, which are staples anyways, are worth taking in my opinion.
Of course, you can prove me wrong and explain otherwise.

YunSooJin · Jul 20, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Tell me a prot other than prot spirit or aegis that would save your life and is as good as you're making it out to be.

/feeds troll just to see what he would say

No, seriously. Most of the prot line either consumes all your energy, or doesn't have much to offer. Only a little bit of it, which are staples anyways, are worth taking in my opinion.
Of course, you can prove me wrong and explain otherwise.

Guardian?
Shield of Absorption?
RoF?
Spirit Bond?

I am definitely not going to launch into a comprehensive explanation of why prot/heal hybrid is better than raw red-bar up to anyone here, particularly you, since this discussion has been hashed, rehashed and then beaten to death until baby jesus cried.

upier · Jul 20, 2009, 06:53 AM // 06:53

You don't need to be good to win PvE.
It's just the way the game is designed.

Lishy · Jul 20, 2009, 07:01 AM // 07:01

Upier, running hybrids doesn't make you good. It's how you play them.
Running prots while still keeping a raven's eye to heal party members is no easy task, as you must usually count and always keep track of who has which prots and such. Because of that, players are usually turned off from the prot line.
Though there's also the group of players who feel it doesn't have a big enough impact.
I mean, blocking a single, one hit when you can mitigate 5 of them. Does that sound appealing? Or how about reducing dmg on ONE ally for merely 6 seconds by only 5, when that damage can also easily be mitigated without constant recast of the prot?
It's not bad. Just not appealing.

@YunSooJin:
Spirit Bond is used outside of 600/smite?

Tyla · Jul 20, 2009, 07:07 AM // 07:07

If all you're going to do is red-bars-up, then you might as well just run an Ether Renewal Elementalist and spam Infuse and/or Heal Party. It's even more foolproof than HB.

YunSooJin · Jul 20, 2009, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You don't need to be good to win PvE.
It's just the way the game is designed.

Yeah, but what's the excuse for being abysmal? I don't understand why there's the excessive focus on red-bar up only.

I saved every single monk bar some player pinged over the past couple days and here is what I get:

1. Healer's Boon
2. Patient Spirit
3. Ethereal Light
4. Dwayna's Kiss
5. Seed of Life
6. GoLE
7. Heal Party
8. Restore Life

This is a shit bar, but sadly it was better than many bars I saw.

1. Resurrection Chant
2. HB
3. GoLE
4. Extinguish <--AIOFHALSJKDASLDJAS>?>???
5. Signet of Devo <-- What the F---?
6. Heal Breeze <-- What the F---?
7. Seed of Life
8. Heal Party

1. Dwayna's Kiss
2. Ethereal Light
3. Orison
4. Heal Party
5. Pain Inverter
6. Selfless Spirit
7. HB
8. Restore Life

1. RoF
2. WoH
3. Patient Spirit
4. Prot Spir
5. Shield Hands
6. Dwayna's Kiss
7. Guardian
8. Aegis

I nearly shit myself when I saw this bar.. it was a good bar for once.

1. Patient Spirit
2. Dwayna's Kiss
3. Ethereal Light
4. GoLE
5. Heal Party
6. Rebirth
7. Cure Hex
8. HB

1. HB
2. GoLE
3. Heal Party
4. Remove hex
5. Patient Spirit
6. Dwayna
7. Signet of Rej
8. Heal breeze

1. WoH
2. Pat Sp
3. Dwayna
4. Cure Hex
5. Prot Spir
6. Aegis
7. GoLE
8. Rebirth

1. Eth Light
2. Heal Other
3. Dwayna's Kiss
4. Heal Touch
5. GoLE
6. Heal party
7. HB
8. Res Chant

1. Pat Spir
2. Dwayna
3. Heal Other
4. GoLE
5. Heal party
6. Seed of Life
7. HB
8. Restore Life

1. HB
2. Dwayna
3. Orison
4. Words of Comfort
5. Patient Spir
6. Heal Party
7. GoLE
8. Restore Life

1. LS
2. RoF
3. Seed of life
4. Dismiss
5. SB
6. GoLE
7. Prot Spir
8. Rebirth
This bar is funny, because it starts out with promise with LS, fails with RoF, Dismiss, Seed, GoLE, and then Prot Spirit AND SB....and rebirth. So I guess that's the whole freakin bar.

1. Energy Tap
2. Dwayna's Kiss
3. Patient Spirit
4. Healing Breeze
5. Heal Party
6. HB
7. Seed of Life
8. Selfless Spirit

1. Healing Seed
2. Eth Light
3. Orison
4. Prot Spirit
5. GoLE
6. HB
7. heal Party
8. Res Sig

Can you honestly look at most of these bars and not be RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing horrified?

Please stop using:
GoLE
Heal Party
healing breeze
Seed of Life
Orison
HB
Selfless Spirit

Lishy · Jul 20, 2009, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Tyla, two words: Protective Spirit.
Use it.

Ether Renewal can go to hell.

YunSooJin · Jul 20, 2009, 07:14 AM // 07:14

I wish Inde would put the BBcode back in.. I realize my last post is a large list of skills no one is going to bother reading.

YunSooJin · Jul 20, 2009, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Tyla, two words: Protective Spirit.
Use it.

Ether Renewal can go to hell.

I guess Kain the expert doesn't know that the build uses Prot Bond.

Burst Cancel · Jul 20, 2009, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Or how about reducing dmg on ONE ally for merely 6 seconds by only 5, when that damage can also easily be mitigated without constant recast of the prot?

Spirit Bond is used outside of 600/smite?

You clearly don't understand how Shield of Absorption actually works, and Spirit Bond is one of the best prots in the game. Thank you for confirming that you don't actually have a bloody clue what you're talking about.

Lishy · Jul 20, 2009, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I guess Kain the expert doesn't know that the build uses Prot Bond.

Prot Bond can go to hell too.
Nothing can replace a WoH hybrid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

You clearly don't understand how Shield of Absorption actually works, and Spirit Bond is one of the best prots in the game. Thank you for confirming that you don't actually have a bloody clue what you're talking about.

Thank you for not backing up your argument.

Arkantos · Jul 20, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

OP is right, heal/prot is better than pure heal.

But Yun, you're forgetting a few things:

1) It takes more skill to prot correct targets than to just mash redbar skills
2) In PvE you don't really need an assload of prots with SY
3) Screw 2. PvE is a joke, you don't need prot to win.

They're lame, yeah. But they still win at PvE with less skilled monks. Anyone can use HB + UA and just power heal the whole team, you actually need some battlefield awareness to effectively use prots.

Burst Cancel · Jul 20, 2009, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Prot Bond can go to hell too.
Nothing can replace a WoH hybrid.

Orly? Let's take a look at what you said on page 1:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

The reason people bring Orison is because it is a good filler heal while all your other heals are recharging.
That said, patient healing + word of healing are a better combo IMO
And Healer's Boon is good because you can arcane mimicry an Unyielding Aura monk and heal over two times as much with your heals.
If you follow such a strategy, Orison of Healing is actually pretty darn good since it is a quick recharging heal.

As for SoA and SB, try doing some reading:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shield_of_absorption
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0380156&page=2

upier · Jul 20, 2009, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Upier, running hybrids doesn't make you good. It's how you play them.

Once again - there are certain options in this game that are superior.
The reason why so many people aren't able to separate them from the sub-par ones is because PvE is easy and people aren't really punished (outside of wining slower) for not taking the best option.
Player skill is irrelevant.
Why?
Because when you have two players of the same skill-level, and you give them two builds, a sub-par one and a superior one - the player with the superior build should produce better results based on the skills and NOT the skill level. The reason why "skills don't matter, but rather how you use them" argument sees the day of light is because players suck at running the best option so there needs to be a way to justify their sub-par selection.

And anyone saying Spirit Bond is one of the best options isn't aware that they are in Campfire. When you are getting wanded for 300 damage, there is ONLY PS.